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Old 08-11-08, 22:28
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Default Taking Photo's of brands/Copyright etc

I just wanted to clarify a few things to save myself getting into trouble. Say for example I wanted to do some posts about the Lloyds/HBOS merger. It would be really cool to have a photo that had a split of their respective logos.

I can find this easily online but I know fine well these will be copyrighted and I will get myself into trouble doing that. So my question is...

Could I go out and take pictures of both logo's (say at a branch) and then make something up myself or are their additional issues here given I am taking a photo of their logo etc? Am I overthinking this?
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Old 08-11-08, 23:06
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Default Re: Taking Photo's of brands/Copyright etc

I wouldn't think you would have anything to worry about Barry. The logo's are being used extensively in all kinds of media right now I wouldn't think anyone will come battering down your door.
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Old 09-11-08, 00:09
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Default Re: Taking Photo's of brands/Copyright etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryhynd View Post
I just wanted to clarify a few things to save myself getting into trouble. Say for example I wanted to do some posts about the Lloyds/HBOS merger. It would be really cool to have a photo that had a split of their respective logos.

I can find this easily online but I know fine well these will be copyrighted and I will get myself into trouble doing that. So my question is...

Could I go out and take pictures of both logo's (say at a branch) and then make something up myself or are their additional issues here given I am taking a photo of their logo etc? Am I overthinking this?
Strictly speaking there IS a potential problem and no; you're not overthinking this at all, frankly you demonstrate admirable professionalism which many could learn from. You see trademarks and logos abused all over the place.

IF your writings are for the purpose of criticism or review and the photos support that then you possibly have the defence/justification of fair comment/permited use. As Brian says, everyone and his dog are using the logos just now. Professional photojournalists WILL be operating under these provisions and it's (highly) unlikely the power that be will come battering down your door, that doesn't mean they can't though!

Personally; I wouldn't have/ can't see a problem with it. But as always the only sound legal advice HAS to come from a lawyer.
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Last edited by TFGtv.com; 09-11-08 at 11:38.
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Old 09-11-08, 16:47
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Default Re: Taking Photo's of brands/Copyright etc

Thanks for your feedback guys One thing I did notice whilst researching this was the number of webistes etc all using the same image which amazed. I would have thought whoever designed it would have issues with that.

Not wanting to take this off in a tangent but I use a site called dreamstime for sourcing most of my other images that I pay for. Is there anything I ahould be watching out for in terms of getting caught out with using the images.
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Old 09-11-08, 18:57
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Default Re: Taking Photo's of brands/Copyright etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryhynd View Post
Thanks for your feedback guys One thing I did notice whilst researching this was the number of webistes etc all using the same image which amazed. I would have thought whoever designed it would have issues with that.

Not wanting to take this off in a tangent but I use a site called dreamstime for sourcing most of my other images that I pay for. Is there anything I ahould be watching out for in terms of getting caught out with using the images.
The image may well be editorial stock; so a fee will (theoretically) be paid for each use.


I've never heard of that particular site before so don't know if there are specific issues with it. However there ARE cases where people have downloaded supposedly 'free' material then found out later to their cost that in fact the free licence provider didn't have the rights to the material in the first place.

As with all media assets in any context it's ESSENTIAL to have a proper audit trail which includes specific receipting of each element together with copies of all agreements, licenses etc.

The safest way is to commission or create ALL content yourself or buy it from a respected, credible source.
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Last edited by TFGtv.com; 09-11-08 at 19:02.
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Old 12-11-08, 20:53
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Default Re: Taking Photo's of brands/Copyright etc

read somewhere a few months ago, could be on zdnet cant remember though, about an image company who are using software and tracking down illegal use of images - several companies have been sued.

here is a link though to some info on using other photography taken from the web:

Are You Using Stock Photography in Your Business Illegally?

Copyright Office: News
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Old 12-11-08, 21:21
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Default Re: Taking Photo's of brands/Copyright etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by promostamper View Post
read somewhere a few months ago, could be on zdnet cant remember though, about an image company who are using software and tracking down illegal use of images - several companies have been sued.

here is a link though to some info on using other photography taken from the web:

Are You Using Stock Photography in Your Business Illegally?

Copyright Office: News

Getty Images and Corbis have been using Picscout to find copyright infringers. When they do they bill them. £2000+ a pop! There are other forums where certain barrack room lawyers hold court trying to convince people that all is well and it's nothing to worry about. And/or that Getty Corbis are evil monsters tormenting innocent business people. But this is sheer stupidity. They're chasing people who have either been ignorant or dishonest enough to break the law and steal someone else's property!

Much is made of the fact they haven't taken anyone to court yet in the UK. But that's simply because they don't have to! No lawyer will advise you to go to court if you have no legal defence; all that will achieve is increased court costs.

The only REAL solution is to be VERY aware of IP rights management procedures even for the most trivial of projects. And this is a key reason why you should NEVER employ amateur or semi pro creatives who haven't been properly trained in IPR management.
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Old 22-11-08, 13:19
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Default Re: Taking Photo's of brands/Copyright etc

originally posted by Matt Quinn

"Getty Images and Corbis...................when they do bill them. £2000+ a pop!"

For your information Getty have never ever sent out billings for images. They send a notification of how much they want in return for using the image. Some people have had letters and threats of court action from Getty's legal people, but they cannot take action on an unpaid debt if there was no debt or evidence of debt in the first place.

Whilst no-one wishes to abuse the IP laws what Getty and Corbis are doing borders on extortion.

A thread was started last year on the FSB Small Business Forum ,you may care to read that before jumping the gun.
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Old 22-11-08, 14:40
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Default Re: Taking Photo's of brands/Copyright etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidk View Post
originally posted by Matt Quinn

"Getty Images and Corbis...................when they do bill them. £2000+ a pop!"

For your information Getty have never ever sent out billings for images. They send a notification of how much they want in return for using the image. Some people have had letters and threats of court action from Getty's legal people, but they cannot take action on an unpaid debt if there was no debt or evidence of debt in the first place.

Whilst no-one wishes to abuse the IP laws what Getty and Corbis are doing borders on extortion.

A thread was started last year on the FSB Small Business Forum ,you may care to read that before jumping the gun.
Actually; YOU may care to read it properly.... Go back through it a bit... I'm only too well aware of the thread... And if you understood the law on copyright you'd realise why what you've just written is nonsense. Any court action WON'T be for the debt; it will be for copyright infringement.

The issue of a demand/invoice is a secondary issue to that. They only go through that process to entrench their case. And the reason any threatened infringement action hasn't come to court is that no lawyer CAN advise a client to try and defend the indefensible... Thus these things are settled out of court with, generally, an NDA gagging both parties. After all; would YOU hire a designer disreputable and incompetent enough to have been 'done' for copyright infringement?

As someone who is trained and practised in IP rights management (over almost three decades!) and actually TEACHES matters of IP law at a legitimate academic institution I can tell you one or two things about that thread. Firstly, it's dominated by one character who, in my professional opinion, is not trained or competent to comment on what he chooses to pontificate on and seems hell bent of pursing a personal agenda which is (again; in my professional opinion) dangerous to all who align themselves with it.

Secondly, all attempts that I have seen by people who might have some legitimate knowledge of the topic are bawled down; even edited by the moderators to the point where their essence is lost. The only comment from the legally qualified that's allowed to stand goes along the lines of "call me; and I'll sort it out"..... It's akin to a gaggle of turkeys trying to convince themselves that people won't eat them at Christmas!

That thread is one of the main reasons why I'm NOT an FSB member. As far as I'm concerns it draws the entire FSB into disrepute. Quite apart from the nonsense that's allowed to stand in their name the FSB lawyers should have really shut this issue down two years ago. The law IS very clear! We now refer students to that thread for self study as an example of how 'barrack room law' can drive clients down some very dark and dismal holes.

I don't agree by any means with what Getty and Corbis are doing. And for that reason withdrew my own images from their catalogue about 18 months ago; and wouldn't supply them again. But I almost wish someone WOULD be stupid enough to let themselves be taken to court on this..... It would be the modern day equivalent of a severed head on a stick; but if that's what it takes....
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Last edited by TFGtv.com; 22-11-08 at 14:42.
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Old 22-11-08, 15:36
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Default Re: Taking Photo's of brands/Copyright etc

Matt

If you wish to start correcting issues then start with yourself.

The thread is on the FSB forum in the small business matters, not in the FSB members section. The Forum for small business issues is there for ALL small businesses to raise issues in the same way this forum is a Scottish Business Forum. If a thread in here is perhaps not factually correct does that mean all Scottish Businesses are to blame?

I acknowledge your obvious knowledge in this particular subject, but the fact remains many businesses have not succumbed to Getty and Corbis's threats and have not paid their demands. None that I have seen on that thread have had any action taken against them.

I also stated, and it is quite clear on the thread on the FSB Forum, that IP used illegally is a crime, no question of that, and most posters on that Forum have removed the offending images. The matter I referred to was the question of the way in which Getty have tried to extort unreasonable costs whilst supposedly claiming their clients hold IP rights on the images used. No proof has ever been produced to substantiate that claim.
In any event if someone uses an image, in the belief, its in the public domain and free from copyright then demanding outrages "fees" for the use of, is "public piracy" at its best.

I also said that no billing for the images has ever been done. All you receive is a letter demanding an amount for the use of an image; no bill, nothing.

I do agree with you if images are used in the knowledge you have "stolen" them then you should pay.

Maybe you should post your posting in reply to mine on the FSB small business matters forum. I would watch with interest. It is after all a discussion forum and any sound and sensible contribution would I'm sure be well received.
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